tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post8026356092183236672..comments2024-02-20T05:13:40.565-05:00Comments on The Maiden's Court: Two Sides to Every Story: Perkin Warbeck v. Richard, Duke of YorkAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-76774135801345814832018-09-15T15:33:15.665-04:002018-09-15T15:33:15.665-04:00Yo creo que era un impostor. Mencionan el hecho de...Yo creo que era un impostor. Mencionan el hecho de que Perkin hablaba mal el inglés y alguien aquí comento que es lo normal cuando aprendes un segundo idioma (el comentario decía que cuando él o ella aprendió francés se le dificultó el inglés) lo cual no pasa con tu idioma natal, así vivas 20 años en un país donde hablan otro idioma, el natal nunca se olvida. Segundo, el respaldo de los gobernantes europeos no prueba nada (a mi parecer), ¿quiénes eran esos gobernantes? James de Escocia, Carlos de Francia y Margarita de York, gente que tenía mucho interés en el trono de Inglaterra. Tercero, bien podría haber sido un hijo ilegítimo de Eduardo IV, al que no le faltaban bastardos. Isabel Reyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04231323453912844962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-18551289643314051652017-05-28T23:32:39.215-04:002017-05-28T23:32:39.215-04:00I feelnin my heart that he was Richard, I like to ...I feelnin my heart that he was Richard, I like to beleive it was him, but poor Elizabeth, of course she had to deny him.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10899361977531456433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-77098873519563833392016-06-11T16:36:17.397-04:002016-06-11T16:36:17.397-04:00I have two theory's, one being that Perkin was...I have two theory's, one being that Perkin was one of Edwards illegitimate sons,that was raised by his mother. Who then married the boat man.. Or the other theory is that Perkin was really Richard the lost prince. And Henry tortured him and forced him to say that he was an imposter.. To keep his wife safe. And I personally think he was... Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01370889607624658818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-63660300849239438132013-10-30T22:57:33.220-04:002013-10-30T22:57:33.220-04:00Great comments Nicole! I think there is a lot to ...Great comments Nicole! I think there is a lot to be said about communication at the time. With less access to resources, more difficult communication, etc it would be much easier to try to pass someone off as another than it would be these days. They didn't have things like DNA tests to be certain. Very much appreciate the comments - I love having discussion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-31767026999591606292013-10-22T02:36:37.653-04:002013-10-22T02:36:37.653-04:00I don't think any of the four points makes a c...I don't think any of the four points makes a conclusive argument. Having fluently learned a second language, French, in France, and having spoken only French for a mere three months while living in Paris, I was surprised at how hard it was to come back and speak English fluently! It would surprise me not at all that his English was considered "poor."<br /><br />But I guess the one thing that I keep in the forefront of my mind is the fact that the victor writes the history books. Define "poor." Who said it? This is impossible to judge 500 years later.<br /><br />As to the second point, in an era of communication existing as currency only of the wealthy -- and as a possibility because of his extensive network of spies, belonging mostly to Henry VII -- and it being slow and unreliable, it would -- again -- surprise me not one wit that there perhaps there was confusion as to his identity. I don't know who "touted" him as one name, another or the last. I'd have to have more info, but the claim falls far short of proving anything to my mind.<br /><br />Point three, I believe that it's very likely that the cousins war had dragged on long enough that people were pretty much done. It's just so hard to say! They'd been decimated by Henry's system of taxes and fines. One might argue that they might have risen up eagerly for a true prince of York, but...again, uncertainty.<br /><br />And lastly, in an era lacking documentation of birth, the fact that the persons he named in his confession as his parents really existed prove nothing. Had there been a plan in place for hiding an endangered prince, a family could easily be procured to care for the boy. There's just too much wiggle room to "prove" that they truly were his parents. Besides...who took his confession, not to mention coerced it (the interrogation methods of the day were particularly brutal [nod to understatement])? Oh! That's right! The "victor," Henry Tudor!<br /><br />Not to be flip, but there remains serious doubts in my mind. I think it is perfectly reasonable that Perkin Warbuck was, in fact, Richard of York.Nicolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15085490783112260650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-27242527746290088022013-10-06T12:19:05.403-04:002013-10-06T12:19:05.403-04:00Thanks for the information. I never intended to l...Thanks for the information. I never intended to lay out every detail that exists on both sides, just sort of a summary of the general opinion of the two sides. I don't necessarily think Warbeck was Richard, but I do think that it was an interesting strategy that did have some legs at the time. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-65370926378722063592013-09-26T14:43:02.762-04:002013-09-26T14:43:02.762-04:00A few facts are being missed here.
1) That Perkin...A few facts are being missed here.<br /><br />1) That Perkin Warbeck spoke English but poorly when he was first acclaimed in Ireland.<br />2) That originally he was touted as the Earl of Warwick and then as a bastard of Richard III before he settled into being Richard, Duke of York.<br />3) That his rebellions failed ever to gain much local English support. (Of course the English people could well have been just damn tired of war and weren't about to embark willingly again on long years of constant battle for yet someone else who wanted to make himself king.)<br />4) That the persons he himself named in his confessions as his Flemish parents do in fact exist in historical records in Tournai.<br /><br />Do I think he was Richard of York? No. I think, like Lambert Simnel, he was a convenient stooge used by old-style Yorkists to try and upset the Tudor applecart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-54328677441964608922012-06-30T12:02:43.691-04:002012-06-30T12:02:43.691-04:00I agree, he could have been any of those things.I agree, he could have been any of those things.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-23410590003819558652012-06-29T21:20:34.202-04:002012-06-29T21:20:34.202-04:00He might have been an illegitimate son of edward 1...He might have been an illegitimate son of edward 1v or of a cousin of his, or he might have been really Richard who knows,Perkin might have just been a pathological liar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-67641349544160509152011-02-07T19:08:46.278-05:002011-02-07T19:08:46.278-05:00Librarypat - English history does seem to be full ...Librarypat - English history does seem to be full of situations where it is hard for us now to figure out what happened. It is great fodder for speculation and discussion tho! Thanks for the great words about this post - I will have to think on what the next topic will be...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-14546915237728419072011-02-07T02:45:01.535-05:002011-02-07T02:45:01.535-05:00I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be...I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to be able to decide one way or another. english history is so fraught with intrigue, murder, deceit, and lies, it is often hard to discern what the truth is. Just reading Lizzy's comment in addition to your post, I have more questions than ever.<br /><br />TWO SIDES is definitely a good addition to your blog. I hope you keep it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-22582855815275190182011-02-02T20:33:44.588-05:002011-02-02T20:33:44.588-05:00Lucy - Thanks! The world would definately be very...Lucy - Thanks! The world would definately be very different if we didn't have the Tudors!<br /><br />Lizzy - I have to agree with you, in my heart I really do feel like he might very well have been the prince. There really are so many things that were done that seem like overboard if he was just a pretender. And really, how could all of those people be wrong.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-28704173369250071602011-02-02T17:55:01.963-05:002011-02-02T17:55:01.963-05:00I have to agree with Lucy had it not been for the ...I have to agree with Lucy had it not been for the Tudors there would have been so many monumental events that did not happen, including Anne Boleyn. But on the other hand in my heart I believe Perkin was Richard. I think the biggest part for me was that Henry VII beat him beyond recognition before his execution. I believe he was hiding his looks so the masses would not freak out that he was executing a man with an uncanny resemblance to Edward. Plus the fact that he never let Elizabeth near him and the conflicting statements are fragmented on Henry's end. I think if Perkin had the backing of some of the most powerful rulers in that time period that they really must have believed it was Richard too, why else would they back him then? What gauls me is the whole Catherine of Aragon wedding to Aurthur, if it was not him then why would Isabella and Ferdinand require that Perkin and Warwick be put to death before they would proceed with the wedding? Fishy to me and always has been. Wonderful post Heather it was much enjoyable.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5339009608152299571.post-69751294816714915232011-02-02T17:32:55.081-05:002011-02-02T17:32:55.081-05:00Love this new series you're thinking about sta...Love this new series you're thinking about starting Heather:) I'm personally still torn about these guys...I kinda like the idea of one of the princes actually escaping. Truth is that if things hadn't turned out the way it did, English history would be entirely different without those feisty Tudors -that's for sure. Great post- Thanks!Lucy https://www.blogger.com/profile/13600064401395449845noreply@blogger.com